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nicolepellegrini
#44 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:14:50 PM(UTC)
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Indexing question - is there a reason why "light" "fat-free" "2%" "low-fat" options aren't availale for a lot of dairy products such as milk, cream cheese, sour cream, etc? I couldn't find anything about that in the manual unless I somehow missed that. I know milk is considered a cupboard recipe unless 1 cup or more, but I have a lot of soups that use more than 1 cup in some recipes and other dishes similar to that.


I'm working on a book with a lot of "healthy" and "low fat" recipes that use these "light" ingredients fairly extensively, and it doesn't seem "true" to the cookbook to just list regular milk, cheese, etc. Yet I have to imagine there's some reason these variants aren't already available as ingredients to select, so before putting them in for the new ingredient fields I wanted to check on that. I see some light ingredients such as soy sauce already available, so...just wondering.
Cheri
#47 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:29:15 PM(UTC)
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Wondering why I can't find chili powder as an ingredient to add.  I see it listed for other recipes, but no matter how I type it in, I get California chili powder.  What am I doing wrong?
schambers
#48 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:37:22 PM(UTC)
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Cheri, spell it "chile powder" and you'll get lots of options.
Cheri
#49 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 6:32:30 PM(UTC)
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oops!  THANKS!  Sometimes we really miss the obvious, don't we!
ellabee
#50 Posted : Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:53:42 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for adding that note, Jane.   Especially after indexing and proofreading, I'm even more impressed with the sheer amount of work you and Deborah and all the other EYB staff are doing.  Thanks!


I had the exact same question as Nicole about non-fat milk and other dairy variants, and wondered about the implications for diet and "light" cookbooks.  It didn't come up but once or twice in the cookbook I was working on, so I didn't dig hard to find a fuller discussion. There's probably one somewhere in the manual?  If not, it would be helpful to add.
wester
#51 Posted : Monday, November 21, 2011 5:46:46 AM(UTC)
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I am impressed by the improvements you keep on adding.


One more idea: in order to choose what cookbook to index, it would be nice to be able to see if any other members have requsted it to be indexed.


At the moment I can only see if I myself have requested the book to be indexed, but it would be good if I could see how many other people want it indexed. A line saying "Index requested by [you and] X other members" instead of just "Index requested" would be very nice.


Is this doable?
Jane
#52 Posted : Monday, November 21, 2011 12:39:11 PM(UTC)
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Yes, it's certainly doable and is a good idea.  I have passed it on to our wizard developers.
sdanet
#45 Posted : Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:36:46 PM(UTC)
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nicolepellegrini;2115 wrote:


Indexing question - is there a reason why "light" "fat-free" "2%" "low-fat" options aren't availale for a lot of dairy products such as milk, cream cheese, sour cream, etc? I couldn't find anything about that in the manual unless I somehow missed that. I know milk is considered a cupboard recipe unless 1 cup or more, but I have a lot of soups that use more than 1 cup in some recipes and other dishes similar to that.


I'm working on a book with a lot of "healthy" and "low fat" recipes that use these "light" ingredients fairly extensively, and it doesn't seem "true" to the cookbook to just list regular milk, cheese, etc. Yet I have to imagine there's some reason these variants aren't already available as ingredients to select, so before putting them in for the new ingredient fields I wanted to check on that. I see some light ingredients such as soy sauce already available, so...just wondering.



I have the same issue.  The focus in my cooking libary is increasingly on healthier cookbooks and it is pointless not to specify these specific "lighter" ingredients while indexing.  Hopefully these ingredients will be added to the master list but in the meantime I have put them in the new ingredient lists when they are not available to be true to the recipes.
sdanet
#35 Posted : Saturday, November 26, 2011 5:01:49 PM(UTC)
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Trackypup;2104 wrote:


I'm currently indexing a book where the recipe includes another recipe contained in the book, usually a sauce... I've been listing that under the EYB Comments, and indexing the sauce as a separate recipe, is that correct?
Thanks



The book I'm currently indexing has an entire chapter of frosting recipes.  According to the indexing instructions 95% of the recipes in this chapter would not be entered separately (a small number are referenced in two cake recipes and therefore would be indexed separately).  If I am reading the directions correctly, these recipes should have their ingredients listed as part of the cakes they relate to (as listed by the author).  While I have no problem with that idea, I don't like the idea of not separately indexing the frosting recipes as I (and others) might use them with other cakes and therefore would like to be able to locate them in the appropriate book.


Is the direction to not enter these recipes separately an absolute or a suggestion to save time?
Trackypup
#36 Posted : Saturday, November 26, 2011 5:49:40 PM(UTC)
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sdanet;2172 wrote:
<p></p>
<p>The book I'm currently indexing has an entire chapter of frosting recipes. &nbsp;According to the indexing instructions 95% of the recipes in this chapter would not be entered separately (a small number are referenced in two cake recipes and therefore would be indexed separately). &nbsp;If I am reading the directions correctly, these recipes should have their ingredients listed as part of the cakes they relate to (as listed by the author). &nbsp;While I have no problem with that idea, I don't like the idea of not separately indexing the frosting recipes as I (and others) might use them with other cakes and therefore would like to be able to locate them in the appropriate book.</p>
<p>Is the direction to not enter these recipes separately an absolute or a suggestion to save time?</p>


I ended up doing it both ways..ie the Eggs Benedict recipe referred to a Hollandaise recipe listed separately in the book. I have the Hollandaise ingredients listed with the Eggs Benedict, but have also indexed the stand alone Hollandaise recipe.
nicolepellegrini
#46 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:30:20 PM(UTC)
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sdanet;2170 wrote:


 


I have the same issue.  The focus in my cooking libary is increasingly on healthier cookbooks and it is pointless not to specify these specific "lighter" ingredients while indexing.  Hopefully these ingredients will be added to the master list but in the meantime I have put them in the new ingredient lists when they are not available to be true to the recipes.



I was told when I contacted indexing support that they won't be added as new ingredients - I should just tag the recipes as low-fat or low-calorie in the nutrition info which...I find a really not that great solution. :-/ I do think there is a considerable difference between using non-fat and whole milk/cheese/etc in recipes - often the ones using non-fat dairy, and in large quantities that require inclusion as a main ingredient, really should have the low/no-fat difference noted in the ingredients list because other ingredients are used instead to amp up the flavor and texture.


But apparently that isn't going to happen.
Jane
#53 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:57:27 PM(UTC)
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Lots of indexing questions!


The problem we have on changing any of the ingredients definitions is that we have already indexed more than 500,000 recipes.  If we now add all the low-fat and no-fat variations of dairy ingredients then all the recipes that have gone before are excluded.  So say you look for a recipe containing no-fat cream cheese you would only get the results since we added that ingredient, all the recipes that contain cream cheese would be excluded.  Generally we recommend that members check the ingredient listings in their cookbooks before they go shopping.  If you aren't able to do that (because you are away from home) then I would have thought the low-fat/low-calorie definition of the recipe or cookbook would advise you that the dairy product listed is low-fat.  If you know your recipe is "healthier" then you know the dairy product listed is not full fat.


It is possible that in the future we will add a wiki that will allow members to update ingredients (like the current debate going on in another thread that all eggs should be listed).  But for now we do ask members to understand that EYB is a search engine to find recipes using the main ingredients, not a replacement for the ingredient lists in the recipes.


sdanet - the instructions do not tell you to exclude recipes that are also accompaniments to another recipe.  If there is a chapter of frostings recipes then you would list each of the frosting recipes separately.  If they are an optional accompaniment to a cake then they get listed as an Accompaniment.  If they are a listed part of the recipe e.g.Vanilla cake with maple frosting then the ingredients for the frosting are listed with the cake ingredients.


Trackypup - if a sub-recipe as part of another recipe warrants a separate listing then it's no problem to do so.  Just put a note as to where the recipe is listed in the book as it is quite likely not to be in the book index if it is not listed as a separate recipe.  The other option is to list the category for the sub-recipe e.g. Sauces alongside the main recipe.  This way only really works if the sub-recipe is named in the recipe title e.g. Asparagus with Hollandaise sauce.  It wouldn't be so obvious with Eggs Benedict that Sauce Hollandaise was included.
sdanet
#54 Posted : Monday, November 28, 2011 9:33:49 AM(UTC)
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Jane;2185 wrote:


Lots of indexing questions!


The problem we have on changing any of the ingredients definitions is that we have already indexed more than 500,000 recipes.  If we now add all the low-fat and no-fat variations of dairy ingredients then all the recipes that have gone before are excluded.  So say you look for a recipe containing no-fat cream cheese you would only get the results since we added that ingredient, all the recipes that contain cream cheese would be excluded.  Generally we recommend that members check the ingredient listings in their cookbooks before they go shopping.  If you aren't able to do that (because you are away from home) then I would have thought the low-fat/low-calorie definition of the recipe or cookbook would advise you that the dairy product listed is low-fat.  If you know your recipe is "healthier" then you know the dairy product listed is not full fat.



Thanks for the clarification on the accompaniments.


On the subject of low and no fat ingredients, is it acceptable to list them as new ingredients?  If not there, can the information be included in the EYB Comments?


Since I know there has been discussion elsewhere about a mobile app, I know that I would eventually want to check an ingredient list while shopping and therefore would want the specific ingredients in the database.
lucyzoe
#55 Posted : Monday, November 28, 2011 12:34:54 PM(UTC)
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Jane,


Is there a PDF of the Member Indexing instructions?


Lucy Zoe
Jane
#56 Posted : Tuesday, November 29, 2011 12:52:44 AM(UTC)
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Hi Lucy Zoe - I'm afraid there's no PDF for two reasons,  Firstly it would be a pain to have to keep updating two versions of the instructions, or creating a new PDF every time we made the slightest change.  Secondly, we could not have the expansions in a PDF - where the basic instructions are expanded out for professional indexers or for member indexers who aren't scared off by a lot of information!
Jane
#57 Posted : Tuesday, November 29, 2011 1:01:57 AM(UTC)
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Apologies sdanet, just realized I hadn't replied to your question.  It wouldn't be a good idea to add low-fat and no-fat variations as new ingredients because as I explained we would end up with all 520,000 recipes prior to that not being specific, which would be more confusing as you wouldn't know which of the recipes in your searches were specific and which weren't.  But there is no problem with adding notes in EYB comments (soon to be renamed Indexer comments) such as "All dairy in this recipe should be low-fat".
sdanet
#58 Posted : Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:05:34 AM(UTC)
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Jane;2193 wrote:


It wouldn't be a good idea to add low-fat and no-fat variations as new ingredients because as I explained we would end up with all 520,000 recipes prior to that not being specific, which would be more confusing as you wouldn't know which of the recipes in your searches were specific and which weren't.  But there is no problem with adding notes in EYB comments (soon to be renamed Indexer comments) such as "All dairy in this recipe should be low-fat".



 


Based on this information I would like to go back and make changes to the prior book I indexed.  It was submitted but is not yet part of the online database.  Is there a process for this type of request?
Jane
#60 Posted : Tuesday, November 29, 2011 2:04:19 PM(UTC)
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I've returned the book to you as requested.  Something else to be corrected as you are going through the book is that recipe titles should only be capitalized on the first word and on proper nouns e.g. Eggplant & roasted red bell pepper soup OR Classic Italian meatballs OR Dorie Greenspan's cream scones OR Coca-Cola cake.
sdanet
#59 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:24:51 AM(UTC)
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Jane;2193 wrote:


Apologies sdanet, just realized I hadn't replied to your question.  It wouldn't be a good idea to add low-fat and no-fat variations as new ingredients because as I explained we would end up with all 520,000 recipes prior to that not being specific, which would be more confusing as you wouldn't know which of the recipes in your searches were specific and which weren't.  But there is no problem with adding notes in EYB comments (soon to be renamed Indexer comments) such as "All dairy in this recipe should be low-fat".



Would there be a problem with moving the specific low-fat or non-fat ingredients into the comments field?  (I would just list them separated as they would have been in the new ingredient field).  The reason I ask is that many of the recipes call for a specific fat content and the correct fat content is particularly important in baking recipes.
sdanet
#62 Posted : Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:40:40 AM(UTC)
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Is "nonstick baking spray with flour" a new ingredient?  I don't think any of the current four cooking sprays will substitute appropriately.  I wanted to be sure I wasn't overlooking an ingredient.
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