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I recently watched a foodie show on Netflix, I think it was probably the Cambodia episode of David Chang's "Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner" or one of the episodes of "Street Food: Asia". Anyway, in the episode, a local cook states that you haven't had southeast asian cuisine if you haven't had it made with palm sugar. She went on to explain that it had a very distinct flavor and substituting other sugars wouldn't produce the same results.

This weekend I made a Caramelized Pork Bánh Mì (wonderful BTW, link to the recipe below). Bánh Mì is a Vietnamese dish. The recipe calls for Maple Syrup and Brown Sugar. I got to wondering if that was a substitution for Palm Sugar, like you see Brown Sugar and Lime Juice as a substitution for Tamarind paste. The Caramelized Pork Bánh Mì... 

https://www.eatyourbooks...caramelized-pork-banh-mi

Finally I get to the question... From your experience, especially with the cuisines that you are immersed in, or that you grew up with, what are the special ingredients that are worth the taste difference (ignoring the obvious like butter vs. margarine and extra virgin olive oil vs. vegetable oil?

Nori, kombu, ume, takuwan, gochujang, miso, kimchi, fermented black beans, mirin, toubanjan (different from other hot sauces), oyster sauce, tenmenjan(it is hard to get this taste with miso and sugar), shiso, sesame oil, dashi powder or bonito flakes, tofu, rice vinegar , etc 

More to add hoisin sauce, fish sauce, coconut milk, coconut vinegar,  ginger, galangal, rice noodles, soba, ramen noodle, spring roll wrappers, green onion, garlic, limes, maggi sauce, nahm prik  pao, dried shrimp, dried squid, dried scallops, dried small anchovies, sambal oelek, cilantro, 

Kefir lime leaves make all the difference IMHO. Though I have to say, since the pandemic I substitute ingredients much more frequently and have been enjoying the challenge of cooking recipes using only the ingredients I have on hand.

Substituting now reminds me a little of when my mother first came and  lived in the Amish area of US in the early 60's. She really missed Japanese pickles. So, she made a mocked one using dill pickles, soy sauce and cooked rice that she would massage well and kept to meld flavors for a week.  

Originally Posted by: Rinshin

Substituting now reminds me a little of when my mother first came and  lived in the Amish area of US in the early 60's. She really missed Japanese pickles. So, she made a mocked one using dill pickles, soy sauce and cooked rice that she would massage well and kept to meld flavors for a week.

Making your own pickles is great! I got started on quick pickles during the pandemic with Red Onion Escabeche (basic quick pickle) to top Cochinita Pibil (slow cooked pork tacos). From there I moved on to a sichuan recipe I saw in an online article (I think I've made 5 batches at this point, I make them everytime I see persian cucumbers at the store), the link to the actual recipe is at the bottom of the article: 

https://www.tastecooking...ved-1980s-aids-epidemic/  

For those I ordered Sichuan Peppercorns (besides the serious heat, they make my tongue tingle) and Gochugaru (Korean red peper). Next I pickled daikon and carrot for Banh Mi, from a recipe I created myself to recreate the ones from a local shop that is now defunct. Finally a latke recipe lead me to making my own beetroot horseradish relish for topping. Quick pickles are great!

Originally Posted by: Dannausc

Kefir lime leaves make all the difference IMHO. Though I have to say, since the pandemic I substitute ingredients much more frequently and have been enjoying the challenge of cooking recipes using only the ingredients I have on hand.

I haven't found these in a store yet, and so far I only have one recipe that uses them -- Thai Tom Yum soup. But I've been thinking about ordering some dried ones online.

Originally Posted by: Rinshin

Nori, kombu, ume, takuwan, gochujang, miso, kimchi, fermented black beans, mirin, toubanjan (different from other hot sauces), oyster sauce, tenmenjan(it is hard to get this taste with miso and sugar), shiso, sesame oil, dashi powder or bonito flakes, tofu, rice vinegar , etc 

 More to add hoisin sauce, fish sauce, coconut milk, coconut vinegar,  ginger, galangal, rice noodles, soba, ramen noodle, spring roll wrappers, green onion, garlic, limes, maggi sauce, nahm prik  pao, dried shrimp, dried squid, dried scallops, dried small anchovies, sambal oelek, cilantro,

Rinshin, I wish we had a direct messaging capability, we've connected on so many topics. I know we are local to each other, and after the pandemic, it would be so great if we could have lunch and compare notes. But I guess we'll just have to do it in public and the bored can go on to the next post, LOL.

A number of the items you mention are in my pantry or I buy on demand for recipes.

Coconut Milk - I cheat. I found powdered at an Indian market. It's close enough to have in the pantry without the bulk of cans. More than once I've gone "that needs the edge taken off" and thrown in a couple tablespoons of the powdered coconut milk.

Dried shrimp, dried squid, dried scallops - Haven't found all of these yet. I saw a recipe for making XO sauce in an online article and was going to try it, but it will have to wait for now.

Galangal - sadly I have a food sensitivty, so of course I love the stuff. Strangely I have no problem with ginger, which is closely related. Thai Basil in Sunnyvale (for Rinshin) makes an amazing Beef with Galangal. I get it takeout for myself once every couple years and suffer the consequences.

Maggi Sauce - I did run into this in a recipe recently. But haven't had a need to find it yet.

Mirin - I have several recipes calling for it, but haven't found it yet (not at Whole Foods, BevMo, Total Wine & More or the local Korean supermarket). I've been substituting Sherry.

Miso - Do you have a brand you reccommend? I bought a tub for a recipe I was making and it came out fine. But I decided to make myself a cup of miso broth (so comforting), and it was completely disappointing. Maybe I just didn't use enough.

Toubanjan - Is that the same as Doubanjiang (broad bean chili paste)? I love the stuff! It's the key ingredient in Dali Chicken, a defunct P.F. Chang's menu item that I managed to score the training manual page for (not exactly a recipe, more like an ingredient list) and I managed to reverse engineer a pretty good facsimile recipe. I add add the bean paste to Dal (Indian Lentil) recipes frequently.

There are 3 major Japanese supermarkets in bay area.  Marukai in Cupertino, Mitsuwa in San Jose on saratoga Sunnyvale Road and Nijiya in Mountain View.  The dried anchovies and shrimp are sold there.  Possibly scallops too. I normally bring back from Japan.  Another great source is Korean market Hankook in Sunnyvale.  Reasonable produce price there and great tasting kimchi. Also clean like other Japanese markets.   Nijiya is organic so prices are higher, but higher quality produce and fish. I like 99 Ranch nearby in Mountain View too for cheap produce and hard to find Chinese, Southeast Asian ingredients.  I don't shop for seafood or meat there though.  Before pandemic, i would go 3-4 martkets in a day, but now 98% online.  I live in Mountain view on west side of El camino.  I like to order seafood from many sources.  Right now good quality hamaci or yellow tail fro Morro Bay fish store Giovanni's.  I also order a lot from Alaska and few other places .

Wouldn't the reason for the substitution matter? For example. If you substitute dairy milk for coconut milk because you can't get to the store to buy coconut milk, that's one thing.

But if you substitute dairy milk for coconut milk because you hate the taste of coconut (as I do), that's something else. 

Originally Posted by: bittrette

Wouldn't the reason for the substitution matter? For example. If you substitute dairy milk for coconut milk because you can't get to the store to buy coconut milk, that's one thing.

But if you substitute dairy milk for coconut milk because you hate the taste of coconut (as I do), that's something else.

Oh, of course. There are lots of valid reasons for substitutions. Allergies, food sensitivities, dietery restrictions, preference, convenience, getting dinner on the table, and right now, avoiding exposing yourself to COVID with unneccessary 'quick trips' to the grocery. I didn't mean to look down on substituting at all -- I do it all the time.

What I meant by my question, was what ingredients make enough difference in taste that you shouldn't substitute for the best experience of the dish? Like butter vs. margarine in most baking, but that we as cooks wouldn't necessarily know without a day-to-day knowledge of that cuisine? Does that make sense?

Of course it does, and you've compiled a very good list of reasons to substitute.

In terms of substitutions, I find that dried makrut lime leaves (also known as kaffir lime) really are hadly a substitute for fresh or frozen fresh leaves. If you are going to order online, then spring for the fresh leaves!

One substitution that I see all the time in Indian cookbooks may not even be intended to be a substitution, just a sloppy translation to European cuisines' ingredients. That is the use of "bay leaves" which as I understand it does not mean bay laurel or California laurel, but Indian bay leaves fron the Cinanmomum tamala tree. That little hit of cinnamon is significantly different from the woodsy eucalyptus flavor of plain bay leaves.

Originally Posted by: Fyretigger

Finally I get to the question... From your experience, especially with the cuisines that you are immersed in, or that you grew up with, what are the special ingredients that are worth the taste difference (ignoring the obvious like butter vs. margarine and extra virgin olive oil vs. vegetable oil?

I have a different take on this having grownup in a rural town with a population of 125 counting Grandma's goats; we were divided along ethnic lines - if you were from the north or west you were a full Finn. If you were from the south or east you were part Finn (remainder Amish or Irish). One summer Dad hosted a Burmese agricultural graduate exchange student. Mother went to the library to find a Burmese recipe that she thought she could duplicate the flavors ... so yes, my introduction to coconut milk was a rancher's wife trying solely from a cookbook. And yes, although it was nowhere near a Burmese meal, the student instantly recognized flavors of home. Half a century later I was taking a pickling class from a Danish cook. One carrot and turnip pickle took my breathe away - the sense of spicing was exactly what my Finnish grandmother cooking for her Amish-Irish husband has settled on for her chuncky sweet pickles.

My point -- you need to know what you are aiming for (a) replicating what it would taste like if you lived where the recipe originated (b) replicating what an immigrant from that place would cook if they lived here or (c) reawakening the memories of the flavors for one who grew up on them.

So I take the attitude that to the degree that it is possible, try to use "authentic" ingredients -- at least until you are comfortable that you know the flavors you are aiming for ... but if you don't like an "authentic" ingredient replace it, or if you can't afford it except on special occasions, substitute. I do not apologize for not using reindeer meat in recipes from greatgrandmother ... she spent 75% of her life substituting other meat. But expect me to look for cloudberry jelly to go on leipajuusto ... I might even want boiled coffee with eggshells rather than espresso to go with it. And yes, I can be obsessive - 4 versions of cinnamon to have the precise species used in the region a recipe is from. (Yes, I have at least 3 versions of bay leaves on hand at all times, including Indian bay.) Rinshin's list includes what I think of as a standard West Coast pantry where our local NPR argues what is basic after you have your Red Boat Fish Sauce.

So yes, you must try a recipe using real Palm sugar ... but that doesn't mean you have to stick with palm sugar. But don't forget to try goat butter ... even if you have trouble finding it specified. It's still an essential flavor if only for my memories of eating bread and butter at Grandma's.

Originally Posted by: Fyretigger

Mirin - I have several recipes calling for it, but haven't found it yet (not at Whole Foods, BevMo, Total Wine & More or the local Korean supermarket). I've been substituting Sherry.

Miso - Do you have a brand you reccommend? I bought a tub for a recipe I was making and it came out fine. But I decided to make myself a cup of miso broth (so comforting), and it was completely disappointing. Maybe I just didn't use enough.

Toubanjan - Is that the same as Doubanjiang (broad bean chili paste)? I love the stuff! It's the key ingredient in Dali Chicken, a defunct P.F. Chang's menu item that I managed to score the training manual page for (not exactly a recipe, more like an ingredient list) and I managed to reverse engineer a pretty good facsimile recipe. I add add the bean paste to Dal (Indian Lentil) recipes frequently.

Sorry, missed questions.  Yes, toubanjan is the same as doubanjan.  Chinese and Japanese tend to prefer this flavor profile more than standard sriracha.  It is not sweet like sriracha.  Japanese also now use Korean kochujang too. It reminds them of miso but much hotter.  

Miso.  Lots of confusion on this.  White miso is not all sweet miso.  White miso from Kansai. ie Kyoto area are sweeter.  Called saikyo miso.   

I like Shinshu miso (light yellowish tan) from Nagano prefecture for many things.  It is not sweet.  this miso is your everyday miso.  Check the back of container where miso was produced.  Shinshu miso is  well known.

i also like Hatcho miso from Nagoya area.  Very savory, dark almost brown black and very good sushi restsurants use this miso for miso soup with clams.  When you can get this, you know the restaurant is very good.   

Also, miso is mixed to get the flavor profile you like and is called awase (mixed) miso.   

Mirin is used as producing shine in the end of cooking as much as sweetness.   I deslike prepared teriyaki sauces and most recipes found in English sites because it is premade and too sweet.  Good Japanese chefs only use the ingredients while finishing off a dish such as fish bathed in teriyaki type ingredints in the ladt 5 min.  

Easiet place to get mirin and miso is at Mountain View Nijiya Market.  Not big like others so easier to navigate.  Go through the door, and pass by vegetables on the right. Go pass that and you will get to all the bottled ingredients including mirin on the left.Mirin prices depends on if all mirin called hon mirin (more expensive and better) to mirin which are mixed.  This is fine for everyday cooking. On the right, you will come to all the misos.  They have good selection.