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"rare" herbs and spices   Go to last post Go to last unread
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 13, 2022 6:49:54 PM(UTC)

I was reading the lists of "rarest" spices on several spice shop web sites and being amused at how common some of those listed were and how truly rare herbs and spices were missing. It seemed to have more to do with the popularity of the cuisine they are used in than with actual scarcity. For example, is dried mango powder (amchur) really rare or is it simply not carried because few people have it on their spice shelf to keep their South Asian cooking authentic? One of the better lists I found has 32 entries without including some of the more exotic ethnic spices. How many of them are on your spice shelf?



  1. asafetida 

  2. sumac 

  3. kokum 

  4. mace

  5. anardana (dried pomegranate seeds)

  6. amchur (dried mango powder)

  7. ajwain 

  8. grains of paradise

  9. juniper berries

  10. black cumin (kala jeera)

  11. long pepper

  12. nigella seed (charnushka)

  13. annatto seed

  14. wattleseed

  15. green cardamom

  16. pasilla de Oaxaca chile

  17. dried kaffir lime leaves

  18. galangal

  19. mahlab (sour cherry pit)

  20. fenugreek

  21. sweet flag

  22. serrano chili powder

  23. Ceylon cinnamon

  24. fennel pollen

  25. dried avocado leaves

  26. wasabi root

  27. black truffle salt

  28. ghost chili powder

  29. saigon cinnamon

  30. vanilla paste

  31. black cardamon

  32. Szechuan peppercorns


There are several that I've met only since retirement for example, grains of paradise and long pepper in my pepper substitute phase, the cinnamons (I have four varieties in my spice cabinet), the chiles (after a cooking class on using chiles - fresh and dried but not powdered).


I lack 7 from the list although the dried avocado leaves I had in the far distant past in a Mexican phase.  I am surprised that lemon myrtle (Australian) and yarrow, birch leaf, lovage (Finland) are not on the list.


How many do you have? What would you add to the list?

#2 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 6:55:45 AM(UTC)

Actually on my spice shelf right now are asafetida, sumac, ajwain (not getting again, replace with thyme or oregano), juniper berries, black cumin, nigella seed, green cardamom, dried kaffir lime leaves, galangal (I never use it but my husband does sometimes), fenugreek (both leaves and seeds) and Szechuan peppercorns. I have used but am not getting again mace, amchur, annatto seed and mahlab. The only thing that I have never gotten but would really like to try is wattleseed, possibly grains of paradise as well.

#4 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 7:26:04 AM(UTC)

Interesting question - most of these I can get within 500 m of my door or not much further here in a London UK neighbourhood that is largely Turkish but also Jewish, Caribbean,  S Asian, and African groceries. In fact, the local Post (mail) shop is run by an Indian family and would have many in their excellent display, and in London and UK generally the wide distribution of South Asian home cooks and restaurants means things like amchoor are easily found, even in supermarkets.


I think some get hidden having multiple names



  1. Sumac - yes,

  2. kokum - no

  3. mace - yes

  4. anardana (dried pomegranate seeds) no

  5. amchur (dried mango powder) yes (amchoor)

  6. ajwain - no

  7. grains of paradise - had in the past, as melegueta pepper (not the same as malagueta chilli)

  8. juniper berries - yes

  9. black cumin (kala jeera) - had in the past

  10. long pepper - had in the past

  11. nigella seed (charnushka) - yes, called kalonji here

  12. annatto seed - no

  13. wattleseed - no

  14. green cardamom - yes

  15. pasilla de Oaxaca chile - no

  16. dried kaffir lime leaves - yes, now called by the Thai name makrut to avoid the K word, fresh and frozen often available which I prefer

  17. galangal - yes, bought fresh, in my freezer

  18. mahlab (sour cherry pit) - no

  19. fenugreek - yes

  20. sweet flag - no

  21. serrano chili powder - no

  22. Ceylon cinnamon - no

  23. fennel pollen - no

  24. dried avocado leaves - no

  25. wasabi root - no, little pots of prepared wasabi condiment from the Japan centre

  26. black truffle salt - no, black truffle oil bought in Hungary 

  27. ghost chili powder - no

  28. saigon cinnamon - no

  29. vanilla paste – no; whole vanilla pods and true vanilla extract, paste easily obtained locally

  30. black cardamon - yes, also known as large cardamom

  31. Szechuan peppercorns - yes


I have different kinds of chilli - Kashmir chillies and Chinese Facing Heaven chillies rather than the Mexican/American varieties which can be harder to source here; I do have Aleppo Pepper (Turkish pul biber), a mild chilli flake which is ubiquitous


I dislike cinnamon except in moderation, so wouldn't stock special varieties


I had both melegueta pepper and long pepper and hardly used them, so no longer keep them, but easily replaced


Some I have that might be considered rare by others are Curry leaf (Murraya koenigii), both dried and frozen, star anise and asafoetida


In an Anglo-French household, the idea that juniper is rare or exotic is a little strange - how would you make pâté  maison without it - or gin of course, and mace is also used a lot in charcuterie and old-fashioned English cooking - essential in many varieties of butchers sausage and potted meat and shrimps.


 

#8 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 8:32:07 AM(UTC)

These kinds of ingredients must be ordered online for me as there is no local source (so does that make them rare?  It does here I guess!). I order from a wonderful place in Calgary - huge selection and great customer service.  These are the ones currently in my house:


* sumac , amchur , annatto seeds , green cardamom , lime leaves , galangal , fenugreek, Saigon cinnamon  & szechuan peppercorns


I have dried pasilla chiles and a smoked ground pasilla powder (which I think may be the Oaxacan type given in the list).  I always have a huge variety of dried chilies and ground chiles on hand but no serrano....except for the fresh ones currently growing in the garden :)  I also just checked my source and yes - they do sell ground serranno chiles.


I use the Saigon cinnamon carefully as it carries a very powerful punch and I also have Indonesian cinnamon (powder and whole sticks) that I am more comfortable using


I buy a very good vanilla and also keep whole beans here but have never bought the paste


AND just 2 days ago, I was searching the pantry in vain for mace - was sure I had some but no :(

#5 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 1:02:09 PM(UTC)

Originally Posted by: StokeySue Go to Quoted Post


In an Anglo-French household, the idea that juniper is rare or exotic is a little strange - how would you make pâté  maison without it - or gin of course, and mace is also used a lot in charcuterie and old-fashioned English cooking - essential in many varieties of butchers sausage and potted meat and shrimps.


 



 


Yes I was particularly surprised to see mace, but my family is English and I grew up in England as a child so perhaps it is from that that I get the idea that mace was pretty common.  I live in the New Jersey now and our area is extremely diverse so I have access to large varieties of grocers and can access most of these easily.   I also think you are correct in that there are name changes that might make it more difficult to match spices.  I am also not a huge cinnamon fan so while at one time I had a variety of cinnamon as my kids liked it, now I just stock one from my Asian market. 

#9 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 5:28:15 PM(UTC)

Out of curiosity, I ran searches for each of the listed spices in the EYB database of recipes, and then common spics as well. There are 2,294,757 in the EYB database when I did my check.


Here's the results for a random collection of spices from my cupboard I checked:



  1. Salt: 770,818

  2. Pepper: 342,955

  3. Ginger: 211,504

  4. Thyme: 170,611

  5. Bay Leaf: 132,642

  6. Basil: 121,649

  7. Mint: 94,908

  8. Oregano: 94,063

  9. Nutmeg: 92,399

  10. Sweet Paprika: 87,315

  11. Rosemary: 70,829

  12. Coriander Seed: 68,807

  13. Turmeric: 58,849

  14. Allspice: 42,991

  15. Sage: 37,384

  16. Smoked Paprika: 32,265

  17. Star Anise: 20,085

  18. Caraway: 11,979


Here's the original list with my findings, from most to least rare:



  1. sweet flag - 15

  2. ghost chili powder - 16 vs 26 ghost chile generic

  3. wattle seed - 27

  4. kokum  - 176

  5. black truffle salt - 268

  6. grains of paradise - 315

  7. mahlab (sour cherry pit) - 393

  8. dried avocado leaves - 419

  9. Ceylon cinnamon - 526 vs 182,300 cinnamon generic

  10. fennel pollen - 586 vs 32,948 fennel seed vs fennel generic 59,747

  11. saigon cinnamon - 629 vs 182,300 generic cinnamon

  12. ajwain - 681

  13. asafetida - 1,100

  14. pasilla de Oaxaca chile - 1,776

  15. anardana (dried pomegranate seeds) - 2,015

  16. annatto seed -2,411

  17. wasabi root - 4,372

  18. sumac - 6,100

  19. amchur (dried mango powder) - 6,599

  20. dried kaffir lime leaves - 7,971

  21. nigella seed (charnushka) - 8,087

  22. juniper berries - 8,161

  23. Szechuan peppercorns - 8,498

  24. mace - 8,553

  25. fenugreek - 8,830

  26. vanilla paste - 8,941 vs 90,671 vanilla generic

  27. black cardamon - 9,399 vs 42,199 cardamom generic

  28. long pepper - 14,027

  29. green cardamom - 16, 517 vs 42,199 cardamom generic

  30. serrano chili powder - 16, 932

  31. galangal - 17,350

  32. black cumin (kala jeera) - 25,735 vs 136,128 cumin generic


Galangal value is suspect. When I searched on just galangal I got 154,158. But when I looked at those recipes, many did not list galangal in either the ingredients or name, but did list ginger in either the ingredients, recipe or book name. But it didn't return all the ginger results as that number is 211,509. So... I've very confused about what the galangal search did do. Anyway, the number I show for galangal was a search on "galangal -ginger", which of course eliminates all recipes that include both.


That only about 1/3rd of all recipes called for Salt was a bit of a surprise to me, as was the popularity of Bay Leaf versus other spices. 

#3 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 6:18:18 PM(UTC)

Originally Posted by: wester Go to Quoted Post
The only thing that I have never gotten but would really like to try is wattleseed, possibly grains of paradise as well.


I've had trouble getting Australian spices and herbs. I finally found a reputable spice dealer who offered them only in a sampler. I couldn't resist ordering ... but when delivered everything I was really excited about, e.g. wattleseed, was "out of stock" and replaced but another more common herb or spice. I got NONE of the items I really wanted.

#6 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 6:27:36 PM(UTC)

Originally Posted by: angrygreycat Go to Quoted Post
Yes I was particularly surprised to see mace, but my family is English and I grew up in England as a child so perhaps it is from that that I get the idea that mace was pretty common.


I always associated mace with Scandinavian baking and was quite surprised to see how widely it is used in Western Europe and South/Southeast Asia. Did you know that "mace" in England also refers to an herb "English mace" which I know by the name of "sweet yarrow". Chicken with English Mace in foil – Recipe (freeplant.net)

#10 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 6:43:00 PM(UTC)

Originally Posted by: Fyretigger Go to Quoted Post
Out of curiosity, I ran searches for each of the listed spices in the EYB database of recipes, and then common spics as well. There are 2,294,757 in the EYB database when I did my check.


Here's the results for a random collection of spices from my cupboard I checked:



  1. Salt: 770,818

  2. Pepper: 342,955

  3. Ginger: 211,504

  4. Thyme: 170,611

  5. Bay Leaf: 132,642


Thanks for running this - very interesting results; I'll have to try it on my spice cupboard.


Bay leaf doesn't surprise me as I keep 3 types of bay leaves on hand:



  • Indian bay leaf which is distinct from the other two

  • Californian bay leaf which is actually a laurel leaf

  • True (Mediterrean) bay leaf


I've not found although I've not truly set my heart on it:



  • Indonesian bay leaf

  • West Indian bay leaf

  • Mexican bay leaf


I wish that ethnic/regional cookbooks were better at telling us what the difference is in the ingredients in the original context versus what we use (think flour as an example of the same thing being slightly different by location).

#7 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 6:55:32 PM(UTC)

Originally Posted by: StokeySue Go to Quoted Post
In an Anglo-French household, the idea that juniper is rare or exotic is a little strange - how would you make pâté  maison without it - or gin of course


Living in a community of Finns with a Finnish-Amish-(Irish) father, the taste of juniper was always familiar to me in pickles and sauerbraten. But your comment led me to realize that my Mother (English background) never had juniper berries on her shelf. It was only when I was out on my own that juniper berries became a necessity.

#11 Posted : Sunday, August 14, 2022 11:37:07 PM(UTC)

Originally Posted by: mjes Go to Quoted Post
I wish that ethnic/regional cookbooks were better at telling us what the difference is in the ingredients in the original context versus what we use (think flour as an example of the same thing being slightly different by location).


I understand what you mean. At the farmers' market, I recently bought common Basil, and actually seeing it for the first time, Thai Holy Basil. I tasted them side-by-side. And both were definitely basil, but they were very distinct; somewhat like the 'licorice' difference between fennel and star anise. But I couldn't easily put it into words.


Then as you mention, add local variation (terroir) on top of it and it get's crazy. I found this trying to replicate the gazpacho I had in Spain. It turned out that Spanish olive oil makes a difference!

#12 Posted : Monday, August 15, 2022 8:08:57 AM(UTC)

Re Fyretigger's comment: "That only about 1/3rd of all recipes called for Salt was a bit of a surprise to me, as was the popularity of Bay Leaf versus other spices."


I'm pretty sure salt is only listed if it's in a large amount or in the recipe title, since it's a storecupboard ingredient. I forget the minimum amount required for listing it.

#13 Posted : Monday, August 15, 2022 8:39:33 AM(UTC)

According to our indexing rules you would only list salt if:


1) It is used in large quantities e.g. for a whole fish baked in salt or for a brine recipe
2) The recipe has salt in the title e.g. Salt & pepper squid, or Salted honey butter
3) The salt is not standard table, sea or kosher salt e.g. Himalayan pink salt, Maldon salt, etc.

#14 Posted : Monday, August 15, 2022 8:53:06 AM(UTC)

I'm also surprised by the inclusion of mace - it's the only item on this list that I have. I haven't opened the jar yet but I hope to when I start mixing my own pumpkin-pie spice again.


(Mixing your own pie spice is part of the fun of dessert making.)


Perhaps guilt by association with Chemical Mace?

#15 Posted : Monday, August 15, 2022 11:52:04 AM(UTC)

It's possible that mace is rare in some markets just because it's so much more expensive than nutmeg which can be substituted in many recipes. 


It occurs to me many of you might be interested in the Spice Pages created by the German academic Gernot Katzer, a fantastic resource if only becaus he lists all the synoyms he can find for each herb and spice, so it you say Nigella, but I say Kalonji - well we don't have to call the whole thing off, just check we know what we mean,


But there is much more there, lots of interesting stuff


http://gernot-katzers-sp...om/engl/index.html 

#16 Posted : Monday, August 15, 2022 2:44:16 PM(UTC)

I noticed the link doesn't work probably because of a superfluous letter at the end. This one does work: http://gernot-katzers-sp...ages.com/engl/index.html

#18 Posted : Monday, August 15, 2022 6:34:42 PM(UTC)

Nigella sativa goes by so many names (sometimes from confusion with other seeds) it's mind boggling. I can't copy and paste on this site, but just Google <nigella seed name> or <nigella sativa name> and see what you get.


I don't have it at home, but I remember it sprinkled on top of Victory rye bread (not the bread that has that name now). I didn't care for it - too much of a perfumey taste.


It seems to be one of the crops mentioned in Isaiah 28:25-27 and translated in the KJV as "fitches" and in some other versions as "black cummin."

#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 16, 2022 9:43:18 AM(UTC)

Originally Posted by: wester Go to Quoted Post
I noticed the link doesn't work probably because of a superfluous letter at the end. This one does work: http://gernot-katzers-sp...ages.com/engl/index.html


Thanks!

#19 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2022 10:08:35 PM(UTC)

I'm guessing that specificity is the reason for so many hits on "salt." So many recipes now are calling for kosher salt or sea salt as a matter of routine. Then there's coarse salt, flaky salt, onion salt, garlic salt, seasoned salt, grey salt, Himalayan pink salt, as well as salt pork, salt-packed capers, salt-free seasoning, and no-salt-added canned and jarred foods.

#20 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2022 7:25:51 AM(UTC)

And more on salt...I always try to order at least one thing special or very new to me each time and this time it was a jar of Hawaiian red sea salt.  AN EYB recipe search (the full library - not just my bookshelf) resulted in 5 hits.  It is also known as "alaea sea salt" which actually got 23 hits when searched.  Yes there was overlap but I didn't look closely enough to see if all 5 were in the list of 23.  I do know that I am excited to start using it :)


I also remembered that I have a little jar of "ground wasabi" that I assumed could be equated to the wasabi root given in the list.  Alas, my jar has 6 ingredients listed and "wasabi" isn't one of them but "horseradish" is.  This sent me reading and I leanred that actual wasabi root is very rare, very hard to grow and very expensive.  One article explained that the majority of "wasabi" served in restaurants (in North america at least) is fake - with no actual wasabi in it all....they do say it's typically a very good fake but still a fake.  I guess "wasabi root" really does earn its place on the list that started this forum topic.

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