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I'm in England, and I recently bought a bottle of Merrydown Vintage Cider,  a sparking apple cider 6.8% alcohol.

So I've been looking for recipes that cook pork or chicken in cider.

The first few I looked at on my bookshelf in EYB specified as an ingredient apple cider (alcohol free) which seem to me slightly odd but I didn't think much of it.

Then I looked at this recipe, which I am familiar with: 

Grilled pork chops with cider sauce (Côtes de porc Vallée d'Auge) from French Provincial Cooking by Elizabeth David

Ingredients: pork chops; shallots; parsley; apple cider (alcohol-free); Calvados

And this seemed odd, because Mrs David's recipe does not spcify non-alcoholic cider - in fact I think she'd have a fit.  She just says "cider" unspecifified.

I have another version of the recipe also on my bookshelf:-

Côtes de porc Vallée d'Auge from Charcuterie and French Pork Cookery (Revised) by Jane Grigson

Ingredients: pork chops; shallots; parsley; dry hard apple cider; Calvados

This is an attributed, direct, copy of Mrs David's recipe, so also just says "cider" unspecified

Now the Vallée d'Auge is in Normandy in northern France, and known for its cidre bouché, bottled, sparkling cider quite similar to my bottle of Merrydown

My assumption is that Elizabeth David's recipe and many others were indexed by someone who assumed the US convention, that if cider is alcoholic it will be specified as "hard cider" - but in England and France all cider is fermented, hard cider, we don't call juice cider.  There is of course de-alcoholised cider but that's a different kettle of fish,  Something to watch out for when reading British and European recipes.

Here's a link to a cider from the Pays d'Auge, note the champagne cork (bouchon, hence bouché)  - that stuff is vivacious, also note that it is 5.5% alcohol

https://www.calvados-dup....com/en/cidre-bouche.htm

Calvados is of course distilled from hard cider, it's far too expensive to cook with since a storm damaged the orchards, but any distilled apple brandy (not bleded or sweetened is likely to work

I have now changed all cider listings in Elizabeth David and Jane Gerigson recipes to apple cider (alcohol), dry apple cider (alcohol) or dry sparkling apple cider (alcohol) as appropriate. The Côtes de porc Vallée d'Auge recipes are all now dry sparkling apple cider (alcohol). If you come across any other recipes that you think need to be changed you can either email to [email protected] or note them in this Forum topic.

I was either reading somewhere or heard on a podcast very recently that what people assume to be cider in the UK and the USA is very different. 

Just musing but isn't American Cider.... apple juice and what we in the UK call cider here ie alcoholic is called Hard Cider in the US?  

Growing up in Somerset I became very acquainted with Scrumpy.... but that's another story ;)

Yes exactly, they specify hard cider if the juice has been fermented over there, but in England (and France) it's not cider until fermented

My Somerset born flatmate once caused us to have a very short college party, she provided rather a lot of scrumpy (rough, still, fermented cider) and by 10 pm the entire rugby squad were laid out in a neat row on the living room floor.

Porks chops in scrumpy are also very good, we made some with the leftovers.

Thanks Jane!  The recipes will make more sense now.

In the Pacific Northwest (apple growing country), we can get fresh cider at the farmers' markets. It's pressed from fresh apples and is not filtered or pasteurized, and must be kept refrigerated. Even so, it will start to ferment after a week or two. Different growers use different combinations of apples, so the flavors range from sweet to fairly tart. Many years ago, one of my sons (about 10 years old) loved the tart cider and would have a glass when he came home from school. One time, he started to complain about headaches for two or three days, and it wasn't until I was in the kitchen when he opened the jug and heard the woosh of escaping gas that I realized that the cider had fermented and that was the cause of the mysterious headaches. Needless to say, that jug went down the drain.

I was caught out by this when we first moved to the US ... bought some cider to find out it was apple juice.  Very disappointing indeed!! 

Thanks for this conversation ! So for this recipe, for instance, I need to buy apple juice ?  Apple Cider Syrup - Closet Cooking (apple cider syrup)

That is so odd. I already thought UK and French ciders were completely different beasts (French more fruity, usually sweeter and English more tart and sharp) but yes they are both sparkling and both alcoholic. 

Yes. I think so, he mentions "fresh apple cider" appearing in fall, so juice.

I think there  are differences in style between French and English (also Welsh and Irish) ciders, and not all are sparklonig, but they are alike in being fermented to produce alcohol and often matured like wine or beer.

Some English ciders (or cyders) are not bottled but sold on draught like beer.

It's worth pointing out that not surprisingly in this age of factory style mass production that there's traditional cider made solely from naturally fermented apples and a mass produced cider which is made from apple concentrate*, industrial yeasts, sugar syrups and then carbonated.

* There's a very interesting Podcast from the BBC's The Food Programme on cider. The one bit that absolutely floored me was when one of the industrial producers point bank refused to say what the apple content of the cider they were producing was.

Non-alcoholic cider would be called cloudy apple juice as far as I remember.

Oh, OK - I'd alwys understood cider and juice were the same in N America, but Wiki tells me that apple cider is specifically the cloudy, unfiltered, unsweetened juice

I would still call that juice, but if I wanted to buy it, I would look for something described as cloudy juice, and often with a word such as premium, unfiltered or pressed; because it is what you get if you put broken up apples in a press and just squeeze the juice out.  If I wanted the best I'd go to a farmer's market or a deli and buy a fresh unpasteurised version, but I'd still call that juice

Clear apple juice is obviously clear from filtration, but usually it's just decribed as apple juice, and cheaper brands will be made up from apple juice concentrate, there are different qualities available

This more or less what I did with my hard cider, I left out the cream and mustard, as I've been making it that way since a fellow student taught me the dish at university - it's very good, don't be tempted to add onion or garlic, and I don't think it would work with fresh apple cider

https://www.thedorsetmea...ith-cider-and-mushrooms/

How are they different, is it only the pulp and filtration/processes that are omitted in the case of non-alcoholic apple cider? In France, I do not see another name than "jus de pommes" which would be apple juice, but I don't know what would be the equivalent of non-alcoholic apple cider. 

Coming in late here but to this Canadian, apple cider is neither filtered  (so cloudy with pulp and sediment) NOR is it pasteurized (and so highly perishable ) whereas apple juice is both filtered (ie clear) and pasteurized (for a much longer shelf life) .  Some people will say the cider version is less sweet and more "appley" but many -like me- find the pulp etc to be unpleasant (and I also only buy pulp free orange juice :) So to me, cider and juice are not the same thing.

Alcoholic (or "hard" cider as I would call it ) is the fermented version of the nonalcoholic cider but is likely strained for clarity (but not always! Some, like Angry Orchard, offer a specific "non filtered" choice ) and of course bubbly from the carbon dioxide produced during fermenting.  Most of the commercial hard ciders I looked at are also pasteurized.  Also of note: the alcohol level is typically higher than most beer (ie 6%) .....which can sneak up on person!

I've made lots of recipes that call for nonalcoholic cider and used the hard stuff (Strongbow is typically my choice) with good results.  I seldom see an explanation with the recipe as to WHY non alcoholic is specifically called for.