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Listing "store-cupboard ingredients" as an ingredient is only required when more than half the recipe's ingredients are omitted in the recipe's index because they are below the amounts listed on the Store Cupboard Ingredients List. You definitely do not need to list "store-cupboard ingredients" if there are a few omitted ingredients here and there. More often than not, this occurs in simple baking recipes. Do you still think you would need the book returned to you?

I'm currently indexing a magazine, my first indexing effort since the book I did more than a year ago. I remember being confused in my first go-round about whether recipes containing animal rennet-based cheese are categorized as Vegetarian.  Given the frequency with which indexers are confronted with this issue, I think it's time for EYB to make the actual policy much more explicit in the indexing instructions.

Currently, the instructions would seem to rule out the Vegetarian category for recipes containg cheese, because most of them are made with animal-derived rennet:

:: If a recipe contains no meat, fish/seafood, poultry, or products of animal slaughter (including meat/fish/poultry stock or broth, anchovies, bacon bits, lard, fish sauce, oyster sauce, Worcestershire sauce, rennet, and gelatin), then list it as Vegetarian in Nutrition. ::

However, it's clear from even a casual glance at recipes categorized as Vegetarian that cheese is not a disqualifier.  I seem to recall (but can't locate) a note from Sydney or Deborah on this subject, from my previous indexing reviews, that EYB takes this approach is because the vast majority of users looking for vegetarian recipes would expect cheese to qualify (and that many cheeses available now have non-animal-sourced rennet).  That makes a lot of sense, and I don't disagree, but I think that it's important to make that policy and the reasoning for it explicit in the Vegetarian section of the indexing instructions.

The guideline as I understand it is that rennet is a disqualifier for the Vegetarian category only as a specific ingredient of a recipe, and that (potentially or actually rennet-containing) cheese is not -- even specific appellation-controlled cheeses made only with animal-based rennet.

Ellabee, you are absolutely correct in your recollections of our emails!  And I do recall adding something about rennet and Vegetarian to the old online manual, but I don't see it reflected in the current online instructions; it may have been a casualty of the changeover from the old help system to the one we use now.  I'll add something as soon as possible to clarify the rennet cheese situation, which you've described so well, I may "borrow" some of your language!

Thanks, Deborah. 

I'd gotten pretty rusty. The first ten recipes were an agony, re-reading all the relevant docs and going back multiple times to re-do in light of newly remembered info. Thankfully, the second ten went more smoothly, and now I'm a quarter of the way to done! 

If I can polish this off in the next week or so, I'll be motivated not to wait so long for the next indexing adventure. As it turns out, one of the three un-indexed books on my kitchen shelf is a new one that would really benefit from indexing -- and skinny enough not to be intimidating.

Great to hear that you're back in the swing of indexing -- it's like riding a bicycle, right?  By the way, if the new book you're thinking of requesting to index next is already on EYB's radar, it might earmarked for pro indexing.

I've just started indexing a baking book and have a quick question.  If a cake serves more than 10, should I be indexing it as 'Cooking for a crowd'?

And something else I'm not sure about :-)

When a recipe has an ingredient followed by the words 'to serve' does this ingredient get included?  So far I've been trying to work out if the ingredient is an integral part of the dish and including it if it is, but leaving it out if it's an extra for decoration purposes.  For example, if a burger recipe had 'burger buns, to serve' I would include this ingredient.  However if a recipe for Vanilla cheesecake had 'strawberries dipped in melted chocolate, to serve' I would leave that out as it's there to decorate the plate and not actually part of the recipe for Vanilla cheesecake.

Now I think about it, I wish I had asked this question weeks ago when I started indexing!

Deborah: :: if the new book you're thinking of requesting to index next is already on EYB's radar, it might earmarked for pro indexing. ::

Unlikely -- it came out in January and is only on ten or so bookshelves; a niche interest.  I think it has a chance to be more popular once indexed, though.

Margaret, we wouldn't index those garnish suggestions as separate recipes; instead, you could make an EYB Comment like "See recipe for suggested garnishes, including Sicilian and Middle Eastern options."  Sorry, we don't have an Ethnicity for Sicilian (or any other regional Italian cuisine for that matter); just index Italian.

Please feel free to email me directly with questions while you're indexing: [email protected]

I'm struggling a bit to categorise cakes.  Some are easy, a Victoria sponge is obviously a large cake and a fairy cake is a small cake. But what about traybakes, for example a lemon drizzle cake.  They come out the oven as a large rectangular or square cake, but like brownies are then cut up into squares or bars to eat, so are they then categorised as Brownies, slices and bars? Should Caramel shortbread be categorised as a bar or a small cake? How on earth do you categorise a sponge cooked in a loaf pan and meant to be sliced?

Are we categorising by presentation method - in other words, how does this cake look when taken to the table?  If it's in one piece but enough for several people it's a large cake, if it's an individual item for one person, a small cake and if you cut it up before presenting it into individual cakes it's a Brownie, slice or bar? And what about that loaf cake!!

I think I'm talking myself round in circles here :-)

Susan_F - the recipe categories can be hard to get your head around.  We also struggled when setting them up - we had to strike a balance between having categories that are as accurate as possible and not having so many categories that indexing and searching became unwieldy.

Anything which is baked in a pan and stays whole on presentation or is sliced just before eating - a round cake or a loaf pan, would be classified as Cakes - large.  Anything which is cut up after baking, then stored and/or presented in smaller pieces would be listed as Brownies, slices & bars.  Any cake which is baked in individual pans such as cupcakes or baked as a individual portion such as shortcakes would be Cakes - small.

It may help to look at our Categories guide in our Indexing manual.  When you are new to indexing it is a good idea to have this open in another tab while indexing so you have a ready reference if you aren't sure of a category.

Thanks Jane, that makes sense. Sometimes I overthink these things - that's the problem with having been a systems analyst in the past!

A couple of questions -

- cheese, what is the verdict re vegetarian tag? Do we assume vegetarians will be able to find a cheese which wasnt made from animal rennet?

- Turkey - I cant find an ingredient for a whole turkey, although it must be there, what is it under? (Cant find it under 'turkey' or 'turkeys')

- I have a chapter in my book headed '14 ways with a supermarket chook', which has sauces, salads and other side dishes. Some of the accompaniments dont have any animal products, so although they are to accompany a chicken should I index them as vegetarian?

Thanks.

PS My book is called Matt Prestons 100 best recipes but he's 'cheated' by having lots of these interesting little extras. So the easy indexing of 100 recipes has rather blown out to many more!

Margaret

I can't answer the rest of your questions but for turkey try 'whole turkey' - sometimes this indexing lark drives you mad!!

Margaretsmall - in answer to your questions:

- yes cheese counts as a vegetarian ingredient, assuming a vegetarian can find one made without animal rennet.

- "whole" is used before any ingredient for which the whole creature is used - meat, poultry, fish

- any side dish, salad, sauce that is vegetarian should have that category added even if that is intended to accompany chicken.  You may well be looking for a vegetarian recipe for another purpose and would want to know where the recipe is, even if in that book it not being used in a vegetarian meal.

Susan_F - not our intention to drive you mad!  Just to try to maintain consistency in the indexing.

Another ingredient-finding tip for anyone who's indexing, even just one online recipe: if the first couple of tries don't bring up the item, try typing a space and then the word, e.g. ' turkey'. That will let you see up to 30 ingredients that contain 'turkey' but in which it's not the first word.

Sadly, in the actual case of ' turkey', the 30-item limit on the dropdown menu means you would still not see 'whole turkey'. But it's always worth trying.